Monthly Archives: June 2010

Kathy Running Horse Wells 1957-2010


kathy and i both came into dis-ability together, especially the intolerance within the teachers’ unions for full, dignified inclusion. we both shared the initial shock at the pervasiveness of dis-ability exclusion, ridicule and hostility. i have, we have lost a real sister in the struggle. i loved her so much. i will miss her very very much. perhaps those at this years nea convention, when the mourn for her, can, in her honor, demand the nea convention, at the very least, address the issues of accessibility (and dignity) that have gone ignored for years.
-emma

andy griggs, emma rosenthal and kathy wells

A Valiant Sister Warrior’s Crossing

It is with great sadness and love that we share the following message from NEA AI/AN Pacific Regional Director and CIEA President, our brother Clyde Hodge.Dear Brothers and Sisters,(I’ve just checked into Baton Rouge and am writing this as soon as possible.)

It is my very sad duty to inform you that our friend and ally, long time CTA and NEA AI/AN Caucus member and American Indian rights activist Kathy Running Horse Wells crossed over to be with her ancestors today, at about 4:00 PM Pacific daylight Savings Time, today, June 24 2010, at a hospital in the SF Bay Area due to complications from diabetes.

To quote Cheryl Whitney who called to let me know, “CTA and NEA AI/AN caucuses and Union work was her life.” We will miss Kathy and wish she were still with us, but we must celebrate her struggles, battles, and successes in the work she did for NEA, CTA, the AI/AN Caucuses, and the American Indian/Alaska Natives educational community. She was a Strong-hearted Warrior.

I trust you will say a prayer in your own way for the family, friends, and other loved ones Kathy left behind, and please allow yourself a prayer as well.

In sadness and solidarity,

All my Relations,

Clyde

It is also of note that we share and continue Kathy’s advocacy for disability access and inclusion at the NEA-RA. Kathy shared with Emma Rosenthal and others many times, the humiliation that was typically experienced by union activists with dis-abilities. Tommy Flanagan  CTA/NEA  American Indian/Alaska Native Caucus

ruth and kathy summer 2009
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A tale of two inquiries (this is how we do it!)

As if there really were a god, the following invitation ran on my fb feed, just as i was addressing the issue of access at another event.  (see the previous post!)  I asked Yesi if I could publish our dialogue and use her name.  She agreed.  Please note, how, in comparison to the previous post’s example, i made the same inquiry,  in  much the same way, with incredibly different results. Unfortunately the previous post’s example is more often the norm.

When approached by anyone from a marginalized group, who asserts that your actions might be discriminatory,  especially if you have little experience with that area of  marginalization, Yesi demonstrates how to assertively and humbly respond to  such an accusation.

This is textbook, and in my opinion and experience, applies to race, gender issues, colonization, etc.  etc.  etc.

In exile,

Emma

Yesi King save the date!

Fundraiser and Website Launch Party!

Location:Self Help Graphics

Time:7:00PM Saturday, July 3rd

Emma Rosenthal it is my understanding that this is not a wheelchair accessible event.

Yesi King oh no emma, it definitely is! self-help graphics is wheelchair accessible! please come, i’d love to meet you in person 🙂

Yesi King i’ve actually updated the event page with that info. my apologies :/

Emma Rosenthal as i recall, the bathroom is not, and unless they installed an elevator, the entire upper floor is not, either. when i brought this up to a board member, i was addressed with hostile indifference, called necia and taken off of her fb list. so if it is physically accessible, it still isn’t dis-ability affirmative. — a very important consideration for pwds because hostility, ridicule and humiliation are more the norm in social environments than not.

Yesi King hmm, i actually haven’t checked out the place in a while, but i will ask. if it isn’t i will be very, very disappointed actually :/ …and i agree with you.

Emma Rosenthal better not say it’s accessible until you confirm. the humiliation and incredible inconvenience of attending an event that isn’t is devastating.

Yesi King good point :/

Emma Rosenthal yesi,  i very much appreciate the openness you have expressed on this issue. usually i am attacked brutally for the mere suggestion. i need a few days to sort things through, but call me and let me know how i can help you make this a fully inclusive event. 818 404 5784

Yesi King hi emma, i definitely will 🙂

Yesi King

Hi Emma.

You said to give you a couple of days to sort this through so I didn’t want to intrude by calling you too soon. So, I opted to send you a message instead. I hope I’m not bothering you.

I’ve read your blog posts (cool blog name btw 🙂 and I’ve really been thinking about the points you have made…and I feel HORRIBLE. You have every right to be upset, you make excellent points, and unfortunately, in order to create change, people have to be put on the spot and be made uncomfortable. I’m very honored to have crossed paths with you.

I’ve asked the people on the team in charge of securing the location about SHG. I haven’t been there in a long time and apparently some things have changed. So, unlike their website and other internet sites about them post, they are NOT wheelchair accessible. The place isn’t two stories; it’s only one story, the upstairs. The bottom spaces apparently don’t belong to SHG. The main part of our event will take place outside but the art gallery will be upstairs :/ According to my friend, SHG just simply has never had enough funds to take on that sort of project and they apparently don’t own the building anymore. They had to sell it a while back. It really SUCKS that the place isn’t accessible for dis-abilities.

Now, this is the context in which the event is being organized: we are not an official org (we are not a non-profit), we do not have an abundance of options for spaces for what we’re trying to pull off, and we do not have funds. We were actually lucky to get the space for free. We just want to raise funds for this website project…because we’re all broke and can’t afford it on our own.

Like I said, I feel horrible…and stupid…and ignorant. The items above are not an excuse. If it was any other situation, this would not be acceptable. What can we do? Please help…we want to make this as inclusive as possible. Forgive my ignorant question, but what exactly do we need to make this inclusive and accessible? I would like to begin making a list asap.

I can’t claim to understand where you are coming from, but I can surely empathize. I really admire you for standing up for this. I think about my son, whom I love more than anything. I wonder how I would feel if he was in a wheel chair, and let me tell you, I’d be PISSED AS HELL if places weren’t accessible to him.

I’m sorry for this. I know what I have to do. I have to ask my friends with whom I am planning this event, to either change the location or find a damn way to raise the funds to accommodate. If they refuse, then I will refuse to be a part of this event. Discrimination is discrimination period.

Thank you Emma,

Yesi

PS. Not sure which book signing event I will be able to make it to, but I will definitely make it to at least one 🙂

Emma Rosenthal

first of all, be easy on yourself. You’re addressing an issue that is new to you, in a very responsible way. (don’t muck it up with guilt- which is always destructive and rarely serves justice.) for me, your timing is perfect. your interest in very affirming. The reaction you observed in my most recent post, is more typical than we would like. (though this is the first time I’ve actually been accused of being racist and exercising privilege in the context of dis-ability access.) we need to address this, not individually, but as a community.

I tried to think of comparable situations—venues that might be inaccessible to other marginalized groups:

Homes in neighborhoods hostile to certain ethnic groups, or sexual orientations,

a strip club–i can hear the rationale now–“oh lighten up, it’s just fun and for a good cause (baby!)” ,

a venue near a police station or ins station,

certain religious venues.

But disability inclusion presents very unique (physical as well as social) obstacles. it’s why andy and i put out a call to the left to begin the dialogue to set up a protocol and find collective ways to address these issues, with short and long range planning.

Even well funded organizations can’t resolve these questions overnight. Right now we’re struggling with what to do if someone requests sign language interpretation. We haven’t found an affordable answer yet. Hopefully we will before the situation presents itself.

The last time I was at SHG they did have use of the first floor. Some possible “solutions” are to see if that space can be made available for the event. Since your event is outside, see if (this is a long shot) there is a way to make the artwork accessible, there. One (not so optimal solution, could be a video feed of the gallery. –-not okay as a long term solution, but certainly an improvement. If the bathroom is not accessible, an accessible porta potty costs a little more than $100 to rent. And our newest strategy is to see if a neighboring business has an accessible restroom that can be used. That’s what we’re doing at Imix in Eagle Rock. Their restroom is not accessible, but a coffeehouse nearby is. In establishing this, we instigated a dialogue that may change Imix’ approach to this issue in the future, and may have also fostered relationships between the two businesses.

I want to draw up a list of accessible venues, look into ways groups can collaborate, pool resources, share equipment. (We have a portable ramp, btw.) Imagine, again the community and working relationships this would foster – the benefit beyond addressing the initial issue.

if you can’t make the event accessible, and you can’t find an alternative venue, you can weigh the decision to have or not have the event, or to put it off until you can find a space that can meet your needs.

If you do decide to have the event, while it is never acceptable to discriminate, a statement that clearly delineates the access, the options for pwds, is essential in not wasting the time of pwds, who know that if it is not stated, not only is the event probably inaccessible physically, but it is probably not socially accessible either.—in other words, even if the space is structurally accessible, once it is full of people and materials, the likelihood that it will be a positive and safe space for pwds, is less likely. On the other hand, if the access is spelled out, it gives pwds a choice, and it also indicates that the issue is one of which the host is aware. (though I am starting to observe that this is being used more as a copout than a real solution. The two events this weekend that included such statements were not events where i would have felt welcomed and they involved organizations that had promised such misunderstandings and oversights would not happen in the future. Instead, what seems to be their position, is that it is okay to discriminate some of the time, as long as an advisory is stated.) it reminds me of the signs from the 1950s- “no dogs, no jews no coloreds.” –Good to know, but not exactly a revolutionary politic.

I hope this helps. It’s not a complete solution. But it’s a start.

Yesi, with your permission, I would like to publish our dialogue on the blog, with or without (preferably with) your real name. I think it is an excellent example of how to begin to address this issue and the appropriate way to address any dialogue on privilege, inclusion and bigotry.

in solidarity and struggle, for a world with no borders or barriers,

emma

Yesi King

thanks emma…but i tend to live on extremes, it’s something i’m working on 😉

also, i’m sorry but i can’t ignore something when it’s wrong. especially when it’s so blatantly wrong and unjust. i can’t ignore it…and you’re right we do need to address this as a community 🙂

my friend neil actually suggested that we rent a portal potty. so that, we can definitely do…thank you for offering the ramp. i will ask them if it is needed. also, regarding the art gallery, i’m workin on that and waiting for a response. oooh and i have a student who knows sign language so i hope she can help out 🙂

also, of course you can publish this dialogue. it IS an excellent example of how to address this issue, creating change, connections, and showing that it can be done 🙂

yesi

Emma Rosenthal

i appreciate what you are saying. i’m the same way when it comes to oppression and marginalization, though i try to temper my expectations in a less rigid praxis, understanding the contradictions and constraints we live with under capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy. i do know, with dis-ability, the social barriers are more significant than the physical ones. neither of the two events this last week, had obstacles to my participation. i can climb a few steps. but i know better to go into such a situation when it is full of people who have no understanding, experience, and awareness of dis-ability rights and solidarity. the hostility, indifference, resentment, the use of space, the way people move around, would have been very difficult and perhaps dangerous for a pwd. the problem with accommodationism, is it just doesn’t work. it never serves the one who is accommodating the marginalization– not in race, gender, colonization nor with dis-ability. it always ends up serving the marginalizer. it always obscures the marginalization. it always demands more of the person who faces exclusion when the real onus is on the entity that is the perpetrator of the marginalization.

emma

keywords: anatomy of a blacklisting

I CAN’T BE PART OF A MOVEMENT IF I CAN’T GET MY WHEEL IN THE DOOR

Today I reached my final straw with the L.A. Left.  After a bitter fb page exchange, and a nasty set of emails from a woman I never met before, I posted the following statement on my fb wall.  The offending fb exchange that precipitated this, follows, but, because at this point it doesn’t matter, i’ve obscured the identity of the offenders with fictitious initials and obscured the actual event.  It is important to know that the person identified as J.H (not his real initials) has been part of an ongoing dialogue on the issue of dis-ability inclusion, within the L.A. BDS movement. J.H.  just this week scheduled a meeting in an inaccessible venue, and apologized only to post this event a few days later.  Also affiliated with the BDS movement in L.A. was another event scheduled for this weekend, both failed to address this issue. This other event’s organizers, having had a difficult, but what I thought and what I acknowledged at the time, productive exchange, decided not only to have an inaccessible event, but to invite both other members of my household and not me.    To fight against separation while maintaining the privilege to separate, is an outrage. No wonder these offended egos go on the attack.

_________________________________________________________

Emma Rosenthal: I CAN’T BE PART OF A MOVEMENT IF I CAN’T GET MY WHEEL IN THE DOOR, When almost every inquiry and assertion is brutally attacked. when “security” at a (yesterday’s) demonstration knocks over pwds in “revolutionary” zeal to chase out a racist. when pithy promises of future access are broken and replaced with hollow excuses and bitter resentment, there’s no way i can be available to the struggle. i’m gonna do the next few scheduled readings, then i’m gonna disappear forever. if that’s good news, well then we know which side you’re on. if that’s bad news, please don’t patronize me with platitudes or admonitions. instead, step up on this issue and demand that there be at least a few safe spaces for activists with dis-abilities within the movement. refuse to participate in events that don’t include. work with andy, if he decides to continue with this, to develop a community protocol and to create community resources. do the same deep reading on this issue of community inclusion as a dedicated activist must do on all issues. there is no excuse. this isn’t a separate issue or a another cause, while you focus on what is “really” important. we are everyone– we are lgbti, we are women in hijab, we are people of color, we are (usually unemployed or wageless) workers, we are students, we are women, we are indigenous. there is no community you can build and still exclude us! i’ve asked other radical pwds what they’ve done. they tell me they just gave up on the left, too. it can’t just be my issue. how can we build a community of social justice based on a foundation (and up a flight of stairs) of exclusion?

the outrageous attacks, bitter stares, sabotage, character assassination, sexism, blacklisting, hate speech, ridicule, the bizarre nexus of dis-ability and gender expectations that demand passive placating, the lies, the jokes, the double standards, the false promises that the next event will address this crucial issue…

i’m done! i’m really really done!

https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/guide-to-accessible-event-planning/

please don’t respond to this post. i will be closing down this fb page in a few days, or paring it down to a few close friends, and pursuing a much more private life. i will continue my blogs, so people i am not so close to, you can find me there. this has been overwhelming painful. if you haven’t read it already, please check out the anatomy of a blacklist, and i also recommend the rest of the “in bed with frida kahlo” blog for greater dis-ability awareness.

https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/anatomy-of-a-blacklist-a-thread-on-two-blogs/

i will be posting the most recent series of events to the blog, obscuring the names of the offenders. they can post their pithy justifications on my blog if they want to stand publicly by their words. special thanks to michael novick and my andy, for one more time, coming to my rescue.

andy posted:

With the exception of a handful of people, what Emma says above is true–we have faced attacks, rejection, blacklisting, ignoring offers to assist and work together, loss of jobs…

each time it occurs the harder it is to keep up the struggle! WE need a cadre of people to join in this dialogue, to participate in planning and cooperative work to educate and support all of us – because a space or event accessible to PWDs is better for all of the community!

https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/call-out-on-dis-ability-access-in-the-left/

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=361031147521&id=1081303180&ref=mf

_________________________________________

The Final Straw (the event announced on fb and the ensuing thread of comments):

J.H. Hey folks, 

J.H. and the ____________ are inviting you to the next fabulous party by the ______________ on June 5th. It’s a fundraiser supporting folks traveling to Detroit in June to do movement work at the Allied Media Conference, the U.S. Social Forum, and the Jewish anti-apartheid gathering. The majority …

————————————

J.H. Hey all, really hope folks can make it out to this fundraiser.

————————————

J.H. oh yeah, its this Saturday night. We’ll have a keg.

————————————

Emma Rosenthal is this event dis-ability accessible and affirmative?

https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/guide-to-accessible-event-planning/

i recommend the following advisory (pending the necessary actions and planning to back it up), for all events. In the invitation you mention that the event  is queer affirmative. dis-ability affirmative, takes more planning because the discrimination is ubiquitous in building structures and attitudes, even among human rights activists.

“this event is wheelchair accessible and dis-ability affirmative. if you need additional accommodations please contact us 72 hours prior to the event.”

(and then be ready to provide sign language interpretation and other accommodations as needed.)

if it is not accessible, it would also be appropriate to say so, saving pwds (people with disabilities) the necessity of having to call to ask if we are welcome or wanted at an event. (can you imagine any other marginalized group having to call to say, for example,”i’m (insert your prime identity here). is it possible for me to attend your event?)

————————————

J.H. No, unfortunately. The main area for the party, the backyard, is but the bathroom is in the house which has 3 stairs up to it. And to be clear, I’m the organizer of the event, no ill will should be directed at INCITE! because of this, I’m raising money for them, its not an INCITE! organized event, I just got the go ahead to do it from them.

Don’t know what to do. There is no staff for this event as described in the link. Since its just me, I don’t think that I could be making sure everything is good with the party and play the role of accessibility coordinator legitimately. I certainly could not afford to pay a ASL interpreter to be there, having no idea how much we’re going to make.

The link seems to be talking about events supported by an organization with money and staff. Is there a suggestion for how to handle something like this that’s very small scale and done with very little money if you don’t have a hookup with an accessible space? Originally I was going to have folks over to my house  which is much less accessible (60 stairs from the street). In the future, do you think that if there is no ability to have an event like this be accessible, that it would be better not to do it at all or to do it and apologize in the announcement that do to financial constraints the event is not going to be accessible?

—————————————

Emma Rosenthal well, take out disability, and ask yourself, would it be okay to have an event that (especially if most events) excluded women, people of color, immigrants lgbti? what makes this exclusion or the difficulties it entails to build bridges, acceptable? in planning events, we (andy and i)  have decided not to have inaccessible events, and we find ways to make them accessible. it’s just something that has to be done.

do you feel so immune to injury that you cannot see yourself part of this group someday? do you think that your contributions would have such limited value after becoming a fallen activist, that you would passively and silently accept a diminished role and the constant exclusion of the movement you spent a lifetime building? do you think we can build a movement when an entire sector of our society is treated as disposable and unessential? do you expect people of a marginalized group, when presented with the obstacles to our participation to simply say, to questions that you raise “yes i understand. i won’t participate in the struggle. i’ll stay home. i won’t make noise?”

would you ask this of any other marginalized group?

you note that the event is queer affirmative. if the only location of an event were a church that, aside from homophobia had a “good” politic, provided free space, and there was no other space, would it be acceptable to assert that the event, this event, given the shortage of funds, just this one time, not to be repeated until the next time, be not so gay friendly– “please dress accordingly and in the gender you were originally assigned by god as determined by our host.”

it is one thing to be unaware– but once there is awareness, excuses are simply that!

andy and i have put a call out to the left to find collective ways to contend with the “unique” issues presented in breaking down the (literal) barriers of exclusion, and with a few exceptions, have been met with the same (white) liberal guilt ridden excuses as any other emerging movement, followed by hostile resentment that we continue to assert the right of people with dis-abilities to be fully included in ANY AND ALL movements for social justice.

we have also offered our home, which we have gone to great effort and expense to make accessible beyond our own needs, in the interest of visitability (that my friend, comrades, fallen activists with dis-abilities could visit!) and as a means of community organizing. no one to date has, while providing excuses and excuses, taken us up on this offer either.

our repeated demands and sincere offers are greeted with rolled eyes, hollow excuses, future promises, hostile indifference, ridicule, blacklisting.(and the occasional feel good story about some hero gimp who never complains, provides freak show entertainment and either pity or inspiration for pwods-people without dis-abilities.– that seems to be our only role in society.)

i have asked other radical gimps what they have done. they tell me they just gave up. they limit their activism to writing, board meetings if they can get asked to serve. it’s just too painful, and the l.a. left just doesn’t care. (in fact we are more often targets of ridicule!)

i suppose one of these days i too will learn my place and fade into the background. though i doubt it. i’ve spent too much of my life fighting for human rights.

Emma Rosenthal we have also offered to provide consultations on access, and to be a resource to the community free of charge (which is the expectation of cripples, that we work for free!) we do accept tax deductible donations, but don’t require it. we are more interested in developing systems of mutual aid and sustainability.

with few exceptions, we have not been taken up on this offer either, but instead get the same excuses, if it is a garden party for one person, or organizations with the resources like cair or answer — our participation has no value and our inclusion costs too much!

the nazis called us useless mouths

Emma Rosenthal btw, you start the invitation “hey all” ? ALL? do you get how marginalizing that is when ALL isn’t YOU? when you know, day in day out, it isn’t you? when you have to plan every outing, pre-call every event and humbly ask, opening oneself up for more rejection “am i included in a way that is not dehumanizing and insulting?”

or as fallen comrade S Brian Willson, put it, on another thread i posted where i asked “Could the newly dis-abled 70+ wounded activists of the Freedom Flotilla, attend your next event?”

” Excellent reminder. I face this challenge all the time when I attend events or activities that advertise themselves as “open to the public” or “all welcome.” Where is the ramp, where are railings on steps for those who can walk but need extra boost, where are the accessible bathrooms? I remind event organizers that “open to the public” is not honest if there is no handicapped access unless they describe a warning that the venue is not handicapped accessible.”

J.Q. wow, no offense… since i dont know you… but don’t you think a personal email would be better suited for your criticisms? Sincerely ,J.Q. “poor queer woman of color who isnt dehumanized or insulted by this event!””

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Emma Rosenthal: yes you’re right. issues of social justice should always be handled with discretion and decorum.

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J.H. Do not call me or my ideas white Emma. It’s unacceptable. I’m Chicano, light-skinned, of mixed European and Western Hemisphere indigenous blood and you need to step back and recognize your own white privilege before you attack me in that way. And regardless no excuses were given. I clarified that the event was organized by myself and so whatever problems there were with the event were my responsibility, I explained the realities of the situation and asked questions about how to better operate in the future. Your vicious personal attacks do not help anyone to hear the important issues you raise.

——————————————-

Michael Novick I didn’t hear Emma calling you “white” (a word she used once, parenthetically talking about a general response by the LA left and liberals to the issue of accessibility), and certainly not making a “vicious personal attack.”

I grappled with issues of accessibility for many years because my mother-in-law was paralyzed and needed a wheel chair as a result of a stroke, and I can tell you that it makes you excruciatingly aware of the generalized lack of accessibility throughout this society. I work in a 10-story high rise school downtown and it took five+ years of hassling to get a chair lift installed at the front entrance; but in a blackout, people have to be carried down flights and flights.

Emma is (thankfully) relentless in calling these issues to people’s attention. In the SF Bay Area there used to be a lot more collective awareness and action about these issues, and blind, limbless, paralyzed and other disabled people were a lot more visible and provided a lot more leadership around the left as a result. We all need to be asking ourselves why signing for the deaf, childcare, disabled access, and a lot of other “new world is possible” collective self-realization type of behavior and inclusiveness is not more common at ‘movement’ activities in L.A.

I say this in a spirit of self-criticism. If my mother-in-law were still alive, we would not be living where we are (in an apartment up a flight and half of narrow stairs from front or back). We did get some sidewalk cuts and handicapped parking spots added in the vicinity recently. We all should know that in this regard, as in every other, it will take conscious struggle, demands, and also self-determined action on our own parts, to make the necessary changes.

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Andy Griggs J.H.–there is no place in Emma’s reply where she calls you or your ideas “white!” To assert that is unfair.

And she did not attack you! You asked a question, and she responded. She responded to each of your questions in detail. She explained what happens whenever we assert the need for access. She gave examples of how to proceed in the future, including calling out for assistance in planning. Until it becomes part of the dialogue in event planning on the left, Pwds will continue to be excluded.

The bottom line is that it is not ok to hold an event that is inaccessible to any group or individual!

And it is not ok to ask when it is “acceptable” to discriminate by holding an inaccessible event – ask yourself how you would respond to that question, if you felt excluded.

We will continue to vehemently assert these rights and demands with the same commitment and determination that we bring to support of Palestinians, indigenous peoples, women, people of color, LGBT!

Simultaneously I received the following email and had the following exchange:

(a quick google search reveals that “P.Q.” is one of the feminists behind a publication i’ve been published in, called “LoudMouth”– a title chosen to counter the assertion that women are supposed to be tempered, well mannered and soft spoken.– something, if you read to the end, apparently does not apply to women with dis-abilities.  –i have found a strange nexus between gender expectations and dis-ability.  this demand that i act like a demure child and not the militant activist i have been my whole life! revised 6/9/2010)

P.Q I think you are missing the point.

Should the event be accessible? Yes! Of course/Claro…

Should he have listed that it was when it wasn’t? NO! Pero…you shaming him online for the event doesn’t sit comfortably with me either!

For example, you could have asked him if it was accessible…if he said no, why not ask if he could make it accessible or help make him make it accessible?

It certainly is a problem with grassroots/diy fundraising….no doubt.

We had fundraising for AMC in a house last year as well….

But it is totally different to compare the struggles of these two movements….for you to bring up immigrant women?!

Sorry, but I do not agree!

They are two struggles that certainly walk (sic) side by side especially when they are intertwined either by spaces/geography/bodies themselves but there is also such a thing as having respect for the differences that these two struggles engage. I may be documented but I take offense to you likening these two together.

That you should honor if you feel that you are really interested in having respectful dialogue. My struggles as poor qwoc are not the same at all. So if you wanna talk about decorum and the very privilege to speak online in the middle of the day….we can start there!

——————————————-

Emma Rosenthal

how patronizing to say i am missing the point. i have studied the point, lived the point, fought for the point. what are the struggles of the qwoc with dis-abilities? why should this issue be sidelines and not subjected to open discussion? why replace a hierarchy of exclusion with a hierarchy of exclusion?

and

if you had read what i wrote, instead of responding with the same outrageous excuses i have heard used for the exclusions of q. w. o, and c, for years (and as an outspoken ally, been summarily upbraided for having done so) you would see that we have offered

1. venue

2. resource

3. consulting and support.

all my protestation is so that more people can be included in building a movement. we have spoke to J.H. more discreetly a number of times, offering all of the above. this is hardly a new issue to those who know me and include me as their (fb) “friends.”

there is no struggle without all of us.

simple!

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P.Q. but are you really wanting to say that you were not being patronizing as well?

i too, have studied the point….i too have lived the point….and i certainly do not underestimate that you also have….

i am NOT saying that one isn’t a struggle. i am saying though that they are two different struggles indeed.

again there are many complex struggles in which people find themselves in various positions. i think that mia mingus for example has written really amazing things about this. and it is not a sideline when she addresses this topic…at all…

if you want an open discussion, why not suggest it for this event? why not another event? l.a could certainly use it as im sure many places can.

my point is that if you are going to point the finger at J.H. alone…that just seems ludicrous.

and i actually did read what you wrote. which is why i found it to be offensive as well. again, likening struggles as though they are exactly the same. they are not.

be an outspoken ally all you want….its not living in our shoes….we dont live in yours either…. and yes, it requires more convo and more communication, certainly.

?

was your consulting free?

my apologies….but it is not that simple….

i wish for it to be….but it is not….

this struggle is clearly in the ways that ideas around issues of race/class/ableism or all considered….

paz

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Emma Rosenthal

as for the privilege of being on line in the middle of the day, i gained this privilege like so many people with disabilities as a result of acquiring this non-conforming body, finding that despite extensive skill and education, like most pwds, i am apparently unemployable unless i make work for myself and find meager ways to market it.

other people who have internet access during the day are 1. people on break, dedicated to social struggle, 2. the unemployed our wageless workers, like myself. 3. people who work at night, on weekends, and at inconvenient hours.

hardly privilege.

i remember when gender, race lgb (no one was even talking about t or i) was considered bourgeois distractions from the movement, the movement being the class struggle, and being told that these issues would be addressed after the revolution.

we were also told to be discreet and less selfish and self indulgent.

if you don’t experience these exclusions in the movement like i experience the daily exclusion of dis-ability access and affirmation, then thank your elders. we fought that fight with the same vigor. When you do experience these exclusions, give me a holler, if i can get my wheel in the door, you’ll have one more ally.

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P.Q. well….i have the privilege of being online during the day because i have been unemployed/underemployed for what seems like ever….

despite an education that has only seemed to amount to cultural assimilation so cheers to us both for being in these bodies!

thanks for the list emma! as you see above, im no stranger to this….talk about checking your patronizing….wow.

wrong again….

i experience exclusion all the time….

and im not certain if you think im a lil girl….but that seems to be typical behavior from my so called “allies”

thanks again!

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Emma Rosenthal we seem to have posted at the same time, in response to your most recent post, how outrageous, again read what i wrote to J.H.  we are hardly singling him out. what a waste that would be (and an abuse!)

to repeat!!!!! we have called for dialogue, we have attempted to meet with people, we have offered free consultation, resources, meetings, venue.

you claim you read what i wrote, given this question “was your consulting free? ” indicates you did not!!!!

because i clearly addressed that.

we would be willing to meet with anyone on this issue and we have told J.H.  we also raise this issue EVERYWHERE!!!!

an invitation went out “to all” and i asked if that included a sector of society that it apparently did not. (given recent convos with J.H. it would have been an unfortunate error to have easily assumed that it did). that’s an outrage, especially since we have had this discussion.

J.H. chose to answer that question on his wall, and i answered in the same venue.

we’re all grownups here!

your outrage is really out of line and misplaced.

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P.Q.

sounds like you need to redirect your strategy then….or engage it in a different way…if you are raising this issue everywhere, where comes the time when you are not just on defense? its a common issue in every movement i understand…

but lastly you have stated again that its an outrage to you that this has happened and then state again that my outrage is out of line…huh?

misplaced? because you would prefer that someone doesn’t check you or the way you addressed this?

right….we are grownups….sigh

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Emma Rosenthal

You state: “sounds like you need to redirect your strategy then….or engage it in a different way…if you are raising this issue everywhere, where comes the time when you are not just on defense? its a common issue in every movement i understand.”

ho hum where have we heard that before!?!?